Curse

Cirian · Jun 26, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58

As PvP players will appreciate, once a skill is unlocked for their account, it's in their library for use on any of their PvP characters. It's fantastic - you only have to get the skill once.

On my PvE characters I have to confess that I'm infuriated by being locked out of my account's skill library when I create a new character. I don't have time or the willpower after a year of playing to get a duplicate of skills I've already collected once - it's mindlessly time consuming, expensive, and it's just not fun!

If I only had one PvE character then the problem would be less pronounced, but as it happens I like to re-roll characters quite a lot and run a handful of PvE characters. After a year of playing I've unlocked a lot of skills, and what I'd really like to do for convenience sake is to have access to all of my unlocked skills accross all of my characters, PvE and PvP alike.

As a veteran, I don't want to become bored of the game by re-doing things I've already achieved - it's really soul-destroying for me now. I hate it. If I could replay the game as much as I like with all my achievements in-tow, without being so locked-down, I could have a lot more fun

The bottom line is: I'm suffering burn-out from re-skilling, and it's a real problem.

edit: (I will add additional information below to make sure this idea is water-tight

)

--- ADDITIONAL ---

My preferred point for a new character to gain access to previously captured skills is after Ascention (or it's equivalent) to prevent abuse at low level. Only ascended L20 characters will benefit.

Skill Hunter: becomes account based, so you can combine the efforts of all of your characters. Effectively you become the Skill Hunter, not an individual character. That means when a new expansion come out you can roll the new classes, capture their elites and be up to date on your title instead of dragging that Chapter 1 character everywhere - unless you want to, in which case you can. Balthazar Faction will offer another route to Skill Hunter; ultimately it's the personal experience that counts, and I will be capping from monsters

Thanks to everyone giving me feedback to fine-tune this idea, keep it up!

Rikimaru · Jun 26, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Almost any Tyrian skill trainer will teach you any prophecies and core skill you've already unlocked. I Don't know if there are any like that in Cantha, but I haven't found any.

monkey grip · Jun 26, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

i fell your pain, been wanting this for a year now.

DeanBB · Jun 26, 2006, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Almost any Tyrian skill trainer will teach you any prophecies and core skill you've already unlocked.

Those are the easy skills to get anyway since they are from quests and traders. Yes it is nice to have them available from any trader now though.

The elites are the troublesome ones since you have to hunt down the bosses one by one to cap them. If you're lucky you can get 2-3 at a time in a zone but usually it is one.

I'm not sure what a good solution to that is though.

Senketsou · Jun 26, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

that would be nice... however lower level arenas will be one-sided towards players with all those skills unlocked

Dougal Kronik · Jun 26, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

I don't think that the Elites should be available unless that specific character has unlocked them.

Not only is that part of the bulding of your character, but it would also seriously throw off the Skill Hunter title.

You can't have the skills anyway since you have to accumulate your skill points to buy/capture them.

Maybe you should keep a few of the characters that seem to have your most used Primary profession, and just change secondaries/armour/items.

MegaMouse · Jun 26, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

I agree with Dougal. Leave the elites out of it, just allow you to have the normal skills that you have unlocked available on your account available that way you wont have to go out and hunt them down all the time.

Have Fun Play Fair
Mega Mouse Leader and c0-founder Section Five

Cirian · Jun 26, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

The trouble with re-skilling became apparent only after I'd done it more times than I care to remember.

When the game was young, it was ok - it didn't take long to re-cover the ground, re-do quests and such... but now the game is really rather big and I know Tyria like the back of my hand - I completed Protector of Tyria and Tyrian Grandmaster Cartographer, so I'd like to think I was 'done' there and I want to go onto new ground, with all my achievements in tow.

There's still a lot... probably a few hundred skills more for me to collect, and right now I have to do that per character. Ouch! That's way to much time than is possible. Like I said, it's not so bad if you only have 1 main PvE character, but if you like to re-roll characters and have a few characters on the go like I do... re-skilling gets in the way of making progress.

Guild Wars has added great features to cut out mindless activities. Map Travel and the modifying attributes in town are two great examples. I can still remember playing DAoC and spending maybe 20 minutes just travelling to get somewhere, or having to go on a long raid for a respec stone if I wanted to change my stats.

I think opening a player's skill library to all of that person's characters is important to eliminate tedium as the game grows. I've earned every last one of my skills and I'd like to use them on every one of my characters eventually - that could happen at a point in the story and I'd be fine with it, like say after you do the "Closer to the Stars" bit in Cantha or after you Ascend in Tyria.

Incidentally, I don't think a title is a good reason to block this idea. I know the concern will be that Skill Hunter could be gained for an account via Balthazar Faction, but if I had to balance the importance of the two... I'd open up the skill library.

scrinner · Jun 26, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Imagine the powers a person could have in PRE Areas, and areas meant towards lower level people. Theyve already come up with a solution to this. Just buy that skill again if you have it unlocked, And no its not expensive as you will never need ALL those skills.

mqstout · Jun 26, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

It is really annoying to have to pay a plat for skills I've already unlocked on other characters, or even the same character if I reroll him to change his looks.

Loviatar · Jun 26, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

UAS all over again for PVE

no way.

if the game is too much work take a break.

1 gold dyes eh?

so lets stop having dye drop as a nice goodie as well. after all a dye at 1 gold isnt worth stopping for.

unlock skills once and give the rest to you free forever? hell no.

gabrial heart · Jun 26, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirian

The trouble with re-skilling became apparent only after I'd done it more times than I care to remember.

When the game was young, it was ok - it didn't take long to re-cover the ground, re-do quests and such... but now the game is really rather big and I know Tyria like the back of my hand - I completed Protector of Tyria and Tyrian Grandmaster Cartographer, so I'd like to think I was 'done' there and I want to go onto new ground, with all my achievements in tow.

There's still a lot... probably a few hundred skills more for me to collect, and right now I have to do that per character. Ouch! That's way to much time than is possible. Like I said, it's not so bad if you only have 1 main PvE character, but if you like to re-roll characters and have a few characters on the go like I do... re-skilling gets in the way of making progress.

Guild Wars has added great features to cut out mindless activities. Map Travel and the modifying attributes in town are two great examples. I can still remember playing DAoC and spending maybe 20 minutes just travelling to get somewhere, or having to go on a long raid for a respec stone if I wanted to change my stats.

I think opening a player's skill library to all of that person's characters is important to eliminate tedium as the game grows. I've earned every last one of my skills and I'd like to use them on every one of my characters eventually - that could happen at a point in the story and I'd be fine with it, like say after you do the "Closer to the Stars" bit in Cantha or after you Ascend in Tyria.

Incidentally, I don't think a title is a good reason to block this idea. I know the concern will be that Skill Hunter could be gained for an account via Balthazar Faction, but if I had to balance the importance of the two... I'd open up the skill library.

I don't think there is a good solution to this. Elites are elites because of how much faction they cost or the time envolved in getting them (viable in both pvp and pve) + the extra oomph of the skill itself. Pvp, there are no ways to capture elites, so it only makes sense to have them unlocked all the time and rerolling a character is more often the case to just get a different build. But in pve, why keep re-rolling? Whats the benifit to it? I dunno, but I'd be dammed if i were ever to concider re-rolling my monk after capturing 91 elites! It just just doesn't make any sense. Why give up the versatility of a character with a ton of elites unlocked in leu of a re-roll? Even so, your still going to have to regain all your skill points and earn enough moola to buy them over again, why not spend 5-15 minutes just capturing it over?

I made an ele and out of pure stupidity named her selena of ice, now i would like to go back and re roll her just to change her name, but damn she has 54 elites! how about we just have the option to change her name/appearence at some point? this has been suggested numerous times, would that option be good for you too?, i dunno... i agree capping across characters is a pain, but i don't see elites having near as much meaning if you only had to either spend a few minutes in pvp to unlock them or just be able to re-roll and buy them for a few hours of pve questing. i could only imagine what lower level arenas with newly made accounts would be screaming about "OMG PWNAGE, I HATE THIS GAME".

kryshnysh · Jun 26, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMouse

I agree with Dougal. Leave the elites out of it, just allow you to have the normal skills that you have unlocked available on your account available that way you wont have to go out and hunt them down all the time.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Game_updates/20060309

The non-elite part has been in the game since March.

For rerolling, one reason is some people like to repeat the storyline missions and such, but would like to use those unlocked skills from previous characters. Sure, you could repeat all of post-searing with a level 20, but that defeats the reason most people who do this are repeating these missions and quests so much. I'd like to see it in one sense, but I see lots of problems with as much, such as the already mentioned elites all over lower level arenas.

Kool Pajamas · Jun 26, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Maybe they should lower the cost of skills you already have unlocked.

Cirian · Jun 26, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Ok, lets think about extra classes. If I roll up a PvE Assassin or Ritualist, I can go around collecting up the Canthan skills, but I have to replay Tyria to re-collect secondary class skills I've already collected with existing characters.

Looking ahead to Chapter 3, there are new professions coming in that have to replay Chapter 1 and Chapter 2 to have a full skill set. With a PvP character I may well end up with full access to every skill in the game, but you know I'd never even contemplate trying that with a Chapter 2 or 3 Character because of all the back-tracking required.

As the game grows, the new classes have a bigger and bigger backlog of secondary skills, requiring more and more back-tracking to re-collect - that's pointless, but it's only becoming apparent now.

The skill library is open to PvP characters and that's great. There should be a point in the game when it opens for PvE characters too - I suggest after Ascending, because I agree that low level characters should not have access. Not to mention, new classes should be learned properly.

Ascending is a good point because that's when characters "come of age" and unlock their inner potential, and alternate secondary classes open up. Open up a player's skill library at that point.

zemelett · Jun 26, 2006, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

Maybe they should lower the cost of skills you already have unlocked.

I'm good with that idea, only if they do it by about 90% and do away with the cost going up every time you buy a skill...

Legendary Shiz · Jun 26, 2006, 10:01 PM // 22:01

I don't think you would need ALL the skills, sure it's nice to have but since its obviously such a strain to get them all why get ones you have no use for? I'm sure you have a build or three in mind for that character...so get the skills you need, and a few that might help for that build and dont worry about it. Getting all the skills for every secondary is pointless IMO unless its maybe your first character. And even then, why pay 1 plat when you could just make a new character, spend a few days on it and save yourself some money. Granted that's a bit time consuming, but it is a game...and I'm sure doing that is a bit easier on the budget than just blowing 20k on skills.

Caleb · Jun 26, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

Maybe they should lower the cost of skills you already have unlocked.

I sure wish they would do this. 1k per skill is expensive across several characters!

Cirian · Jun 27, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

If I roll a new class, I'd want to spend the skill points and money earning new, primary skills. For a Canthan character for example, I'd want to buy Canthan skills, and that would be progress. When Chapter 3 comes out, I'd like to concentrate on a Chapter 3 character and collect Chapter 3 skills, not having to worry about back-tracking.

The cost of duplicating skills across characters runs into hundreds of skill points and plat per character! Unless it's a PvP character, in which case you're sitting pretty.

The problem will only get bigger with each expansion. Any new class will face a huge backlog of secondary skills to collect, and that goes for Skill Hunter titles too. I doubt many people will roll a Chapter 3 character and trawl through Chapter 1 and 2 for all the elites the way things stand. It's much more likely to be a person dedicated to a single Chapter 1 character that gets the title, and not someone who captures all the elites across multiple characters. I'm sure there are folks like myself who like to capture all their skills across multiple characters, and well, it's not really fair is it?

The onus on playing a single Chapter 1 PvE character to have access to your whole skill library also flies in the face of the new professions. They're always going to be crippled by comparison, since the hundreds of hours I put into previous chapters does nothing for next chapter characters, unless they're PvP characters. That really sucks when I think about rolling a new character, especially a new chapter character.

So I still say "Open the skill library after Ascention" for PvE characters. It will save my sanity

bilateralrope · Jun 27, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

If I only had one PvE character then the problem would be less pronounced, but as it happens I like to re-roll characters quite a lot and run a handful of PvE characters

Quote:

There's still a lot... probably a few hundred skills more for me to collect, and right now I have to do that per character. Ouch! That's way to much time than is possible. Like I said, it's not so bad if you only have 1 main PvE character, but if you like to re-roll characters and have a few characters on the go like I do... re-skilling gets in the way of making progress.

Quote:

The cost of duplicating skills across characters runs into hundreds of skill points and plat per character! Unless it's a PvP character, in which case you're sitting pretty.

Cirian, from your posts it appears to me that your complaining that for each of your PvE characters you have to go and aquire skills again. PvE characters are not meant to be re-rolled whenever you feel like it, which is why you have to grind if you delete one and decide you want to remake it.

When I delete a PvE character its because I don't like playing it anymore, and I take care to get the looks and name right first time.

/unsigned - If you really want to delete and then recreate a PvE character, only buy skills as you plan to use them.